from: http://www.sightings.com/general2/nod.htm __________________ Quote:
ROFL no wonder the tech companies are doing so well, they've got a galaxywide market :0) [Edited by renots on 09-07-2000 at 09:25 PM] __________________ I wonder what scientific mag they talking about.. cause "real" scence mags are hardly for any average joe on the street. I have read and written papers that go into the real scietific mags and they are not as simple as what is porposed here. This guy must have been reading the mags that are written for laymen. Those mags are fun to read but not very indepth and some things in there are not all that researched.[This message has been edited by CluelessSi (edited 07-24-2000).] __________________ ... the human race must face the possibility that we are the most advanced civilization in the galaxy ...Let us examine facts as opposed to what we all might believe or what we see in the movies. As of yet, there is no confirmed or material evidence of alien life. There are things that suggest these conclusions, but we have yet to have an alien come on down and say howdy, we're aliens. Until that happens, we must face the possibility that we may be alone. The writer is not suggesting that this is a certainty, just as he's not trying to suggest that there is no life outside of Earth's atmosphere. I think it's man's basic romanticism/inferiority complex that compels us to believe we are at the bottom of the food chain. But from my impression of the decidedly, blatantly one-sided account of a "one of the most deliberately one-sided pieces of journalism" (oh the irony), the author appears resistant beyond all reason to the possibilty that we are alone. Conspiracists, theorize all you want. The fact is, you might NOT be the object of international collusion, you might NOT be struggling against anything. Face that possibility before you spout off about a person that is attempting to take all rational possibilities into account. __________________ quote: If you're rolling on the floor laughing at THAT, then I bet you also belong to a militia in Montana. Last I checked, the tech market was tanking. __________________ Are we really alone? I don't think so, however, I don't believe that there is flying saucers and little green men with huge eyes in the stars. If you really understand the Bible then you would know that intelligent beings are not aliens with 8 tentacles and the such. Anyone who believes that we are alone needs to have there head examined.__________________ Just came from the doctor. Head seems to be fine, despite your advice.__________________ With a possiblity that we are alone there comes a bigger possibility that we are not. If you at all believe in evolution you will know that there is high chances of the formation of the same "protien soup" when given similar enviroments. Also having no contact only means that either "they" don't want contact or don't have the technology to substain contact. same goes with us. we have not been able to reach anything out there but cauld be because our technology is not advanced enough to reach another system. I am not saying that we are not alone but we must present both sides of a study. __________________ quote: What does the bible have to do with what aliens would look like? For all we know they could be little green men with 8 tentacles. It all depends on the environment that they live in and how they adapt to it. If you think that they will be 2 leged, upright walking beings like us, then you are the one who needs to get your head examined. As of right now we have no proof that there is other intelligent life forms in the universe, but so far all we have examined is this little tiny part we call the solar system, and radio signals from wherever. But we have only really been looking for a short time. It would seem that with such a huge universe with such a huge variety of different elements it would only seem logical that there are other life forms somewhere out there. The real question is if we will ever find them or be alive at the same time as them. ------------------ ~Kacarp~ "Where is your ****** god now?" The mole __________________ [quote]Originally posted by pennypinch:Last I checked, the tech market was tanking.[quote] Just the typical summer lull. By September it'll be roaring again. I was laughing at the implication that the technology that we humans use on a day to day basis is the best in the galaxy, i.e. gasoline combustion engines, coal burning powerplants, microsoft operating systems... If you still think the evidence on ETs is pretty thin, you're ignoring alot of information out there. Just because Dan Rather or Ted Koppel doen't say its true doen't mean its not true. For those still intriqued enough to check out all the possibilities, Day after Roswell is an interesting read. :0) [Edited by renots on 11-18-2000 at 07:07 AM] __________________ Quote:
It was Scientific American, which has done its fair share of sticking its head in the ground on alot of subjects that threaten the scientific orthodoxy, such as cold fusion, reincarnation, etc. :0) [Edited by renots on 11-18-2000 at 07:08 AM] __________________ Quote:
Hey, militias in Montana are no worse than militias in California, New York, Utah, Maryland, Washington, etc. At least they aren't out killing innocent women and children like the FB! and the BATF and getting away with it scot free with a federal grand jury whitewash. [Edited by renots on 11-18-2000 at 07:10 AM] __________________ I'll reiterate, despite suggestions to the contrary, there is no material, conclusive evidence of "aliens" or any other life outside of our little sphere. OK, not counting the microbes on Mars. What that says is NOT that there is no life whatsoever, but that conclusion cannot be ruled out.For an oversimplified, frankly patronizing, example, take the Loch Ness Monster. We have no documentable proof whatsoever that it exists, save a couple of eyewitness accounts. Is that to say it doesn't exist? No. Those eyewitness accounts, however, do not make the Loch Ness Monster a fact, either. It simply leaves the matter open until conclusive proof is brought forward. From the sounds of the opening post, Mr. Crawford merely suggests that SETI be expanded to find either conclusive proof in either direction, not that life is conclusively exclusive to Earth. To brand me closed minded when in truth I reject neither argument, but simply embrace the possibility of one that seems inconceivable (i.e., that in the infinity of space, we are alone) is paradoxical. Science is not founded upon suspicion or likelihood; it is grounded in fact. Just because Ted Koppel doesn't say it, doesn't make it true? Doesn't make it false, either, now, does it? __________________ Quote:
Well, there are the Majestic 12 papers Pennypinch, I didn't mean to imply that you or anyone else was close minded; I just wanted to encourage those who might be somewhat hesitant to step into humanity's new paradigm of available information, a paradigm against which the conventional media is fighting a losing battle. :0) [Edited by renots on 11-18-2000 at 07:10 AM] __________________ Gonna try to steer the topic back a bit. Personally I don't find the idea that alien life exists to be all the unbelievable. I'm not one of those paranoid UFO fanatics. But why does everyone think that 'life' is so special? I mean, if it can happen on this garbage heap of a planet why not somewhere else? I don't even think that sentience is all that impressive. Think about it: Pat Buchannon is considered sentient. And from what I remember from 1st year anthropology, the earth, at one point, had 3 sentient species: Homo Sapien, Homo Erectus, and Neandratalis (I think that's correct, its been years since I took anthro). If this small clump of rock can have THREE sentient species AT ONCE, why can't Omicron Persei 8 have a civilization of large 6 toothed lizards with a deep facination in Ally McBeal reruns? Personally, I think there's probably thousands of species of intelligent aliens flying around the galaxy. And the first aliens to come by earth, took one look and called the intergalactic public works commission who quickly erected a giant yellow tape around our solar system and a giant sign that says: DANGER! Stupid Humaniods Armed With Nukes And Cell Phones! Avoid At All Costs! Danger! __________________ Renots, are you Joe Firmage or Art Bell? ;-)__________________ http://www.sightings.com/general3/rober.htm National Policy Of Debunking UFOs Began With The Robertson Panel by George A. Filer Jeff Challender, who is doing excellent work with the NASA Shuttle footage wrote, "Have you ever thought of doing a story on the now little known Robertson Panel of January, 1953? This is the origin of the official policy, of ridicule and debunking at all costs, against those of "credible stature" who might dare to report UFOs or "uncorrelated targets". Yet few in the public are aware of this Panel and its' recommendations. People should know about this. IF there is "nothing" to the UFO phenomenon, it doesn't make sense to create a policy of aggressive attacks on witnesses. Why work so hard, expend so much energy and time, and spend so much tax dollars to counter "NOTHING"? Well Jeff. there really is a national policy to ridicule UFO reports. The US government's own historical documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act explain why it became US government's policy to debunk, mock, and discredit anyone who provides good evidence for UFOs. In the late 1940s early 1950s, the numerous reports from high quality witnesses was putting the government in a precarious and embarrassing position. Leading the revelations were Major Donald Keyhoe and Vice Admiral Roscoe Hillenkotter the third director of the CIA (1947 to 1950)[Hmm, he didn't seem to have lasted long] who declared UFOs were real. UFOs were reported in headlines buzzing Washington DC and flying at will over our military bases. The Cold War with the Soviets and Communist countries was heating up. Strange craft were reported all over our skies, and [even]the news media was critical of government's explanations. Many thought the craft belonged to the Soviet Union or perhaps aliens bent on invasion. There was fear the Soviets could use UFO propaganda to discredit the US government. There was genuine concern that a national panic could occur. Whether UFOs were real or not, the situation made the president nervous, the military and the various intelligence agencies look bad. Plenty of good reports were leaking out and thousands of military aircraft were crashing. Stories started leaking out these aircraft were crashing while chasing UFOs. The crashes were explained has training accidents and mechanical failures but the news media was starting to tie the two types of reports together. Best-selling books were claiming the UFOs were real and might signal a Soviet or alien invasion. The situation whether real or unreal was deteriorating. The Robertson Panel was formed at the request of the White House to quell the situation. It was not unlike the Warren Commission or Waco Hearings[or the eerie silence on Columbine] where the public wanted answers. So powerful forces in the CIA, Air Force and the scientific establishment came together to cool the UFO state of affairs. CIA documents reveal five members of the Scientific Advisory Panel who were known skeptics were given several poor UFO cases to examine and came to the conclusion that "there was no evidence of a direct threat to national security in the objects sighted. Flying saucer reports were overloading emergency reporting channels with false information, clogging up communication lines, causing alarm, and realistically even if they were real there was little we could do about them. Further the government was losing the confidence of the people. Our science and aircraft seemed to be confronted by far superior technology. The Robertson Panel discussions and recommendations centered around the main problem of eradicating belief in these unidentified flying objects. Ways of bringing in the news media, and movies were discussed. CIA documents reveal, one of the panel's recommendations was that a policy of debunking UFO reports should be instigated. This would result in reduction in public interest in flying saucers which today evokes a strong psychological reaction. This media such as television, motion pictures, and popular articles. Basis of such education would be actual case histories which had been puzzling at first but later explained. As is the case of continuing tricks, there is much less stimulation if the secret is known. Such a program should tend to reduce the current gullibility of the public and consequently their susceptibility to clever hostile propaganda." The CIA reports reveal a national policy of debunking UFO reports. Like was instigated and the power of the government was set in motion to debunk the field. The panel discussed the various insidious methods that could be implemented to execute such a program: It was felt strongly that psychologists familiar with mass psychology should advise on the nature and extent of the program. These national programs resulted in the National Policy became to debunk any valid sighting even if it resulted the embarrassment of pilots and government employees. UFO reports were denied, debunked and those who see them ridiculed. Timothy Good in his book Above Top Secret writes: Another sinister recommendation of the panel was that civilian UFO groups should be watched "because of their potentially great influence on mass thinking if widespread sightings should occur. The apparent irresponsibility and the possible use of such groups for subversive purposes should be kept in mind." The panel concluded that "the continued emphasis on the reporting these phenomena does, in these parlous times, result in a threat to the orderly functioning of the protective organs of the body politic," and recommended: a. That the national security agencies take immediate steps to strip the Unidentified Flying Objects of the special status they have been given and the aura of mystery they have unfortunately acquired. b. That the national security agencies institute policies on intelligence, training, and public education designed to prepare the material defenses and the morale of the country to recognize most promptly and to react most effectively to true indications of hostile intent or action. P. 338 Shortly thereafter every effort of the government went into debunking UFOs even if it would mean embarrassing its own people. It soon became known the best way to destroy your military career was to report a UFO. Captain Edward J. Ruppelt, Chief of the Aerial Phenomena Branch at the Air Technical Intelligence Center, said that the CIA ordered the Air Force to debunk sightings and debunk witnesses. "We're ordered to hide sightings when possible," he told Major Keyhole," but if a strong report does get out we have to publish a fast explanation--make up something to kill the report in a hurry, and also ridicule the witness, especially if we can't figure out a plausible answer. even have to discredit our own pilots." P.339 The millions of dollars spent by the Air Force to debunk the Roswell report show this policy is still strongly in effect. It's an uphill climb to bring out the reality of the situation. If a group of military people observe a UFO and the case has merit, they are quickly transferred or retired to keep the observers from talking and told to keep quiet with various threats. Every time I see a strong debunking article that tears at the reputation of a courageous UFO researcher, I wonder who the debunker is working for? If you study Ufology, you soon discover in almost every important case there will be an attempt to ridicule those who bring the pro UFO evidence forward. The better the case the stronger criticism. Frequently this is led by a small but ferocious group who seem to claim every sighting is the planet Venus or a hoax. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but they usually attack the researcher rather than the data. The attacks are vindictive towards the person rather than his research or sighting. I always wonder if the attackers are paid to conduct these character assassinations? One favorite tactic is to attack the person for any attempt __________________ __________________ Colonel Philip Corso was a decorated Vet perhaps a bit bookish but certaunly not a man to Fib  if Phil said they had plans for a moonbase I'd have to take him for his word  From the National Archive  ???  Day After Roswell __________________ Quote:
so few real secrets anymore [pg1]  Rule One: Deny Everything! [pg12]  ..under no circumstances is the general public or the press to learn of these entities. The official government policy is that such creatures do not exist, and that no agency of the federal government is now engaged in any study of extraterrestrials or their artifacts. Any deviation from this stated policy is absolutely forbidden. [pg20]  ~~~ Ignorance is bliss...to a point ;0) __________________ I was an acquaintence of Sagan and he firmly believed in life beyond our galaxy. With the findings of the newest galaxy this summer, that is suppose to be similar to our own, on a scientific level one would think that it would be inhabitable by living beings such as ourselves. It will take more advanced equipment to prove this theory correct.Sagan would be in all his glory over this discovery.On the matter of Roswell, I sent away for the so called published report of what the military and government wants we civilians to see. In this report numerous sentences are blacked out which makes one tend to believe that there is some kind of cover up by the government. This report is available to the public by the way but because so much of the material is blacked out its a waste of time to try to decifer what the government and military don't want us to know. Weather balloon theory.. I think theres more to Roswell than military weather balloons. __________________ I tend to believe that it is extraordinarily egocentric of humans to believe that we are the only intelligent beings in the uni/multiverse. Given the limited scope of our knowledge and vast expanse of space around us, I have to believe that we are not alone. However, that said, I also think it is egocentric of humans to believe that intelligent life would WANT to visit us if they could - which is also questionable. It is for that reason that I am skeptical of UFO sightings, abductions and blah blah blah. Certainly I don't believe it is outside the realm of possibility, but it seems highly unlikely. __________________ Quote:
 U don't actually read any of my posts, do U Butch? ;0) __________________ Quote:
Did you really expect me to?  __________________ I guess not...but that's coolit's alot funner argueing with the misinformed anyways  ;0) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ if we had more Bunnies than Mercenaries maybe we'd have World Peace already... __________________ When I'm actually arguing, I read what you have to say. However, I was simply sharing my opinion on extraterrestrial life with that post. It had absolutely nothing to do with what you'd said in the thread. Don't flatter yourself thinking that everything I post has to do with you, Renots. __________________ No ETs? What a lonely universe that would be;0) __________________ Royal Raymond RifeImagine, for a moment, that you have spent more than two decades in painfully laborious research-- that you have discovered an incredibly simple, electronic approach to curing literally every disease on the planet caused by viruses and bacteria . Indeed, it is a discovery that would end the pain and suffering of countless millions and change life on Earth forever. Certainly, the medical world would rush to embrace you with every imaginable accolade and financial reward imaginable. You would think so, wouldn¹t you? Unfortunately, arguably the greatest medical genius in all recorded history suffered a fate literally the opposite of the foregoing logical scenario. In fact, the history of medicine is replete with stories of genius betrayed by backward thought and jealously, but most pathetically, by greed and money. In the nineteenth century, Semmelweiss struggled mightily to convince surgeons that it was a good idea to sterilize their instruments and use sterile surgical procedures. Pasteur was ridiculed for years for his theory that germs could cause disease. Scores of other medical visionaries went through hell for simply challenging the medical status quo of day, including such legends as Roentgen and his X-rays, Morton for promoting the 'absurd' idea of anaesthesia, Harvey for his theory of the circulation of blood, and many others in recent decades including: W.F. Koch, Revici, Burzynski, Naessens, Priore, Livingston-Wheeler, and Hoxsey. Orthodox big-money medicine resents and seeks to neutralize and/or destroy those who challenge its beliefs. Often, the visionary who challenges it pays a heavy price for his 'heresy.' So, you have just discovered a new therapy which can eradicate any microbial disease but, so far, you and your amazing cure aren't very popular. What do you do next? Well, certainly the research foundations and teaching institutions would welcome news of your astounding discovery. Won't they be thrilled to learn you have a cure for the very same diseases they are receiving hundreds of millions of dollars per year to investigate? Maybe not, if it means the end of the gravy train. These people have mortgages to pay and families to support. On second thought, forget the research foundations[O and u thought Ur donations were going towards progress?HAH!]. Perhaps you should take your discovery to the pharmaceutical industry; certainly it would be of great interest to those protectors of humanity, right? But remember, you have developed a universal cure which makes drugs obsolete, so the pharmaceutical industry just might be less than thrilled to hear about your work. In fact, the bigshots might even make it certain that your human disease-ending technology never sees the light of day, by preventing it from becoming licensed by the regulatory agencies. Now, assuming your amazing cure is an electronic instrument, the only cost of using it is electricity. And it is absolutely harmless to patients, who can recover without losing their hair, the family home, and their life savings. So, with your technology, there is no longer any reason for people with cancer to pay over $300,000 per patient -- to become deathly ill from chemotherapy, radiation treatments, and the mutilation of surgery. It sounds like you won't find many friends and support among practicing oncologists, radiologists, and surgeons, doesnt it? You might try the hospitals and big clinics. But how thrilled are they going to be about a therapy administered in any doctor's office; which reverses illness before the patient has to be hospitalized? Thanks to you, the staffs of these institutions will essentially be out of work. Well then, how about the insurance companies? Surely, they would be delighted to save the expense of hospitalization - at least the companies which haven't invested in hospitals, where the staff is now sitting around waiting for someone to break a leg or be in a car accident...and the ones who don't lose policyholders as a result of your invention...and the companies which aren't trying to divest their pharmaceutical stock. Oh well, forget the insurance companies, too. It looks like you just might have a little problem with the medical establishment, no? ~~~ I'd say Yes I think someone don't want Star Trek to happen 'cause den they make no easy money |
Saturday, May 26, 2007
Can The Scientific Community Be Trusted?
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